Now is the best time to develop full-chain games

1. How did Influence start?

Nejc: Let's start with the fixed questions of the "Meet the FOCGERS" interview series. As a FOCGER (Fully Onchain Gamer) who is developing a full-chain game, what prompted you to choose this direction? How did you decide to develop this full-chain game?

DarkosNightmare: There are two core concepts that made me finally decide to devote myself to full-chain games. The first is its unstoppability, which is why we named the studio Unstoppable Games, and it’s the most important part of our vision.

I played a lot of games in the 2000s and 2010s. It always made me very sad when I saw games being shut down and the communities disappearing with them, not because of the community itself, but because the game no longer existed.

At the same time, I was also involved in the open TTD community, which is a smaller community that you may not know much about. It’s a community that’s rebuilt around a game called Transport Tycoon that was made by Chris Sawyer about 30 years ago.

He also made some popular games like Rollercoaster Tycoon. These games are very fun. It’s a game about trains, and you run trains and buses in the transportation industry. Later, this single-player game was abandoned and became abandonware.

Then one day a community decided to rebuild the game, from scratch, and make it completely open source. So they created Open Transport Ticket. Interestingly, initially you had to own the original game to use the art assets. Over time, these art assets were gradually replaced by open source equivalents. I was part of this community and not only helped develop the game, but also made some mods.

Several of the mods I developed were quite successful, and within a few years thousands of people were playing them, which was always a heartwarming and pleasant feeling. It always makes me happy to see that someone enjoys the product I developed, and it's a great feeling.

But what struck me was that this game was created entirely by a community, and I saw that it could exist indefinitely as long as the community wanted to play it, which was a very cool concept. This made me start thinking about how to apply this approach to multiplayer games.

Another part that caught my eye was composability. I played Eve Online regularly from 2010 to around 2012, I was part of the Test Alliance and on their leadership team.

I made a third-party application that handled ship reimbursement. When people were flying for the alliance, if their ship was destroyed, they would be reimbursed. This process involved a lot of background work, such as interfacing with APIs. But it always frustrated me that its functionality stopped prematurely.

You could ask Eve if a ship was destroyed, and that was about all it could do. You knew the ship was destroyed and who was flying it, but there was no further interaction. You couldn't automatically reimburse with ISK (the in-game currency), it all had to be done manually.

It was at that moment that I thought, how great it would be to have a multiplayer game that could exist indefinitely and be able to expand and combine, especially a massively multiplayer game.

These two ideas were the first to make me discover Ethereum in 2016 and 2017 and realize that this was the starting point for the solution. Ethereum is a built-in decentralized system where code can be deployed and the code can never be deleted. If there is a community that wants to use this code, they can use it forever.

We can also let them develop around the game. This was really exciting to me. So for the next three years, I learned Solidity while developing some Influence clients. This idea gradually matured in my mind.

I want to build this game in an asteroid belt with a real orbital mechanics system, and it is very social and alliance-driven. Then in 2021, this idea really became a full-time project.

2. Engine and full-chain games

Nejc:Yes, that's when I found that a lot of these games began to enter my field of vision.

For some reason, games always attracted me the most. At that time, developing a full-chain game, especially a very complex massively multiplayer online game (MMO), was very difficult to start technically, especially when there were no projects to refer to in the early days.

Now the situation is different. Your game is about to be released, and some other full-chain games that started development at the same time will also be released in the next few months, many of which rely on tools developed in the past few years.

I know that in the past some full-chain games came together to develop game engines (such as Dojo). So can you share how the Dojo engine specifically helped you?

DarkosNightmare:Actually, Influence was not developed based on Dojo, but it was mainly a matter of timing.

By the time Dojo reached a maturity level where we were able to switch, we had already gone too far in the other direction. So we said, well, Dojo is great, and we could still switch in the future, but the timing wasn't right at that time.

We still have some connection to Dojo though. Because in 2021, when I met with loaf and Terrence from realms and Cartridge, we had already started discussing a lot of concepts from Dojo and Influence and applying them in the frameworks we were building.

We had a lot of discussions, and I contributed code to Dojo in some areas. For example, there's a library called Qubit, which is a fixed-point math library that includes trigonometric functions, procedural generation, and randomness.

This library plays a lot of roles in Influence, and it comes from the process of how we simulate orbits and generate entire worlds, but Qubit is also used in Dojo for pseudo-randomness. I believe the world of Eternum is generated through the same procedural generation method. So I think there's a lot of interaction between all the on-chain teams, and we're all using similar libraries, sometimes even the exact same libraries.

We discuss a lot, and actually, both Eternum and Influence are built with similar client-side technology stacks. We both use three.js and have discussed its use in 3D world generation a lot. I think that's really great.

Especially in Starknet and the on-chain gaming community, the community is really great. Everyone is willing to collaborate and help each other. Of course, Realms players will play Influence, and Influence players will inevitably play Realms.

I think that's really great because, as you said, on-chain games are a new thing. I think that's one of the reasons why they're so interesting and special, because it's one of the few things that can't be done in traditional games.

But because they're so new and so small, I really don't think there's a reason for us to compete yet. We won't have any real reason to compete for quite some time. So at this stage, the more similar projects, the better. Really, it's like the old saying "a rising tide lifts all boats." So I think it's a great ecosystem.

3. Unstoppable Games

Nejc: Yes. You mentioned that the game you are developing relies on the characteristics of being fully on-chain. I'm curious, what elements of your game really benefit from being fully on-chain?

DarkosNightmare: On the one hand, it's philosophical. For example, unstoppable, of course you can say that it's just because you are developing it, but it doesn't really matter. But I think the philosophy of unstoppable is very important because it is on-chain, unstoppable and cannot be stopped, which means that the community can have more trust and confidence in the future of the game.

I think it's really unique because it really brings the game developers together with the community. We've seen a lot of examples of this in Realms, and also in Influence, where the community actually becomes part of the development team. I think that's very unique because the community can be as involved as they want.

The code is completely public and on-chain. If they want to fork the code, they can easily do that. The hash of every class is declared and stored on Starknet and can be used at will. This means that we are more connected to the community. Their feedback is also more important and needs to be taken more seriously than traditional game studios.

Traditional game studios, if they want to shut down the game, they shut it down. If they want to go in a different direction, full of micro-fees and paid skins, they will do that and the players can't do anything. So I think that's one of the biggest philosophical reasons why we chose to be fully on-chain.

On the other hand, I think this has allowed all kinds of amazing community projects to emerge. There are projects that have never contacted us who just decided to build an indexer for your contract events and start building something. There are some incredible tools out there, one of which is called Floodgate, which is now part of the Starknet microgrant program. They've built a really cool tool that's completely independent of Influence that allows you to outsource crews. If your crew has a better stat bonus, like they start with a class that's good at packing inventory, they have a packing rate bonus. They've set up an interface where you can pay some sway and do it with a single multicall. Because the game logic is all on-chain, it locks your inventory and gives them access. They're done, the inventory is locked again, and the access is removed. All of this is done in one transaction, so there's no risk of permissions leaking or malicious use. I think it's pretty amazing. It's almost a very limited Influence client. I hope to see more projects like this in the future, and we're going to encourage this kind of innovation.

Nejc: Permissionless plugins.

Right. You also mentioned EVE Online as a big influencer. When you first thought of a fully on-chain game like Influence, CCP Games didn't indicate that they were working on a fully on-chain game, right?

DarkosNightmare: Yeah, I know they did some small experiments. I know Hilmar is more open to blockchain than most. I remember they might have minted some battle records as NFTs on Tezos, but they only sold them for a few hundred dollars, so the project was discontinued.

But I think it's great. There's some inspiration from EVE Online, but Influence is a different game after all. I hope they do well.

Maybe we'll talk more about this later, but I think one of the biggest challenges facing full-chain games or anything involving crypto or blockchain is the indifference of traditional game players. So, more investment into this space, more big studios like CCP developing in this space, is good for all of us.

Nejc: I think this also validates the judgment of all of us in some way.

DarkosNightmare: I feel a little bit sad because I wanted to sign up for their private beta, but it felt a bit out of place.

Nejc: Yeah, I've heard from several full-chain game developers that they feel the same way. For me, it does feel a bit conflicting. So, I understand. In some ways, it's also good to develop on your own track.

4. Real planet orbits

Nejc: So what basic concepts did you want to translate into actual game design? Is there something specific that sets you apart from other games?

DarkosNightmare: First of all, I think the dynamic planet map is very unique.

There are 250,000 asteroids in the asteroid belt in the game, and they are actually moving independently, at 24 times the real speed. This idea has been in my mind for a long time.

In fact, when a civilization is born in the asteroid belt, its dynamic and strategic options when traveling are almost unlimited. It's a very interesting challenge to figure out how people are going to plan to actually do business if they're born on an asteroid that only has a chance to pass by a market once every three years.

You don't see this in a game with a static map, where if there's a road from A to B, then you can always go from A to B. In Influence, A to B might only be possible 10% of the time. So I think that's the core feature of the game.

It also influenced the navigation design in the game. The interstellar travel in the game is very close to reality. We use porkchop plots (Porkchop plots, translator's note: its name comes from its shape like pork chops, commonly used in the aerospace field to show the energy requirements of spacecraft in different launch windows) and rocket equations that SpaceX and NASA use to calculate rockets to Mars or any interstellar travel.

Pork chop image from the game Influence

This also has a lot of implications, like you need to bring enough propellant. And because the journey is quite long, you also need to prepare enough food. Many other games have designs that are derived from this core mechanic, which I think is very unique.

The only game I can think of that includes this mechanic is Kerbal Space Program. This is another big inspiration for the game Influence, but it is a single-player game. Also, in Kerbal Space Program, there is much less exploration of this situation and its impact on society.

5. Alliances and Guilds

DarkosNightmare: Another important feature of Influence is composability.

When I was playing EVE Online, I always felt limited by the way they allowed you to organize. There are legions and alliances in the game, and the game has some specific control methods for this. But these structures are very hierarchical, and ultimately what you can do is very limited.

As the leader of a legion and an alliance, I quickly discovered these problems. You know, you can't get permissions the way you want, you can't split the legion into the groups you want, you can't even govern the way you want, and you can't implement democracy.

If you want to build a democratic alliance, it's impossible. If you want to build a communist alliance, it's not possible. Even anarchist alliances can't be achieved. I always think it's going to be really interesting to see how these different systems of alliances compete with each other.

I think that's a big part of what I wanted to achieve with Influence, which is that there are almost no restrictions on how the game can be organized. You can use custom contracts to define permissions in any way you want. Including setting up a governance system, using Snapshot for decision making, all of this is possible.

I'm really looking forward to seeing players start to explore this.

Nejc: Yeah, it's about building alliances, legions, and you have more room to operate in this type of game. I think this is a very clear use case for full-chain games.

I had similar experiences playing games like Clash of Clans, Ikariam, and Travian, which were staples of my childhood, circa the late 2000s and early 2010s. I'm really excited about what's going to happen here. I imagine alliances are going to become a bigger part of gaming, and we're probably going to see very different ways of working with alliances.

DarkosNightmare:Yes. Because I'd love to see that kind of tension and drama, and the competition that comes from that is exciting, too.

Nejc:What are your hopes for these early alliances? Are there any specific use cases that you're hoping someone will realize?

DarkosNightmare: My expectation is that, although as a developer, we have to be the team that supplies goods early in the game market, we hope to get rid of this process as soon as possible.

You know, we have to solve the cold start problem of the game, because all primary resources can only be mined from the ground, and building mining facilities requires the use of processed products of these primary resources, so we can only provide these processed products ourselves at first. Therefore, what I would like to see most is that the alliances in the game can quickly establish regional centers so that we can exit as soon as possible.

So the regional centers run by the alliances will have different scales and sizes, and the materials supplied by these centers can meet people's needs, rather than just relying on the materials initially released by the official, because these materials will soon be exhausted.

So I hope to see multiple regional centers, no matter where you are, whether you are playing alone or in a small or large alliance, there will be regional centers that can be accessed. I really want to see an alliance successfully survive and thrive in the Trojan asteroid belt outside the main asteroid belt.

Adalia star map in the game Influence

I think it will be a challenge, and to be honest, in a sandbox game like Influence, it's all about challenging yourself. I would love to see an alliance take on this challenge.

Nejc: Yeah, we'll see it soon, right? The mainnet launch is very close. Maybe we'll release this episode on the day of the mainnet launch, I guess Thursday.

DarkosNightmare: Thursday 13:30 UTC.

Nejc: Yeah, I think it's going to be fun.

6. Mainnet launch is just the beginning

Nejc: So, how do you feel now compared to the past few years of development? You seem relaxed, you seem ready, it's coming.

DarkosNightmare: I'm more relaxed today than I thought I would be. The past six months have been very stressful. But now, I'm close to the state where we've done the best we can. We tried to make the game fun, we got a lot of feedback, did four different tests, and adopted that feedback as much as possible. It's almost time to release it now and see what happens.

It's fun. After all, this is what we've been working towards for over three years. Really excited to get it out there and live. Of course, that's not to say there won't be bugs in the client. There will definitely be things that need to be fixed, there will always be some rough edges or areas that need improvement.

The game is already live, and people are playing it well and reporting back that they have a lot of fun. They're excited about developing strategies. Right now I'm just going to quietly observe. I'll play it anonymously myself, but it'll be interesting to see how people get started.

Nejc:  Yeah. I have a big game schedule scheduled. There are a lot of games like this right now.

DarkosNightmare:  Well, I mean, definitely plan it for launch. I think there will be some people rushing to grab the prime real estate on Adelia Prime.

Nejc: Yeah. There's still some planning to do. On the one hand, maybe we can work with the alliances and slowly explore for the first few days to get everyone familiar with the game and get everyone together in the same location.

However, depending on how anxious people are, I don't know if there will be time for slow exploration.

DarkosNightmare: Yeah. I know different alliances have different strategies, some alliances are planning to fly away as soon as possible and establish their new headquarters. And some alliances are committed to staying on Adalia Prime, participating in the market, and becoming manufacturers.

There are a lot of different strategies. I think they are all very valuable. I'm looking forward to seeing which strategies will ultimately succeed.

Nejc: I'm curious if there are any issues or gaps you still have with the game or Games Workshop.

Like, are there any things you still need to work on, any specific characters missing, or any specific directions you want to push forward.

DarkosNightmare: That's a good question. I think a lot depends on how we develop over the next few months.

But for sure, I hope to have more support for Cairo developers. We have a lot planned for the future, we will release Discovery after Exploitation, and then Conflict, so there is a lot to develop.

Discovery will include skill trees, technology trees, and invention mechanics, and Conflict will of course bring attack and defense capabilities and combat between ships and asteroids.

So there's a gap there. Cairo developers are really a need. And then on the 3D side, we're committed to making Influence immersive and fun. Immersion is really important when it comes to 3D. I think it's a time-consuming and resource-intensive job, but it's something we really want to do and we're committed to getting it right.

So that's definitely a direction we plan to expand in.

7. Turn-Based and Massively Multiplayer Online Games

Nejc: Okay. I think this is a common concern among developers in the full-chain space. Speaking of 3D and 3D artists, do you have any thoughts or insights on the current state of full-chain games? Is there a particular direction you'd like to see this space go in?

DarkosNightmare: That's a good question.

I think in the field of full-chain games, we see two types of games starting to emerge in large numbers. One is turn-based games, which I think focus on using full-chain features as an anti-cheating measure to ensure the fairness of scores and rankings; the other is multiplayer online games, such as "Eternum", "Influence" and "Dope Wars", which fall into this category.

I think both of them are good use cases. I hope to see more multiplayer games. I think this is an area where full-chain games can really show their advantages. To be honest, I don't think this is a widely recognized or popular view. But my opinion is that as the tools and the underlying public chain mature, developing full-chain games, especially massively multiplayer online games, will eventually become an advantage.

Compared to developing such games in the traditional world, the development of full-chain games is more direct and simple. I think it's because you're actually in an environment where the servers are already built, all the peer-to-peer communication and order of operations are already handled, all these systems are in place, and you don't need to hire a large systems engineering team to do server development for you.

So, I actually think we'll eventually see fully on-chain games become a huge accelerator for these games, and it may even lead to us getting to a point where it's not that expensive to develop massively multiplayer online games (MMOs), which has always been a problem.

We haven't actually seen a lot of MMOs released in the last decade.

I think that's why. So I hope to see a resurgence of a new, low-cost MMO, because I think it's actually possible to do it now without a huge team.

Nejc: Yeah, I started playing free-to-play MMOs probably in 2006 or 2007, and I was playing new free-to-play MMOs for seven years, and there were a lot of new games. I was always following the content on MMObyte, which is a website.

Whenever there was a new MMO with an exciting trailer, I would jump in with my friends and play for a while.

DarkosNightmare: Yeah, I remember playing a lot of Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2. I also played a lot of EVE Online and World of Warcraft. I think MMOs are a really amazing experience, and it's really cool to integrate social into the game. I think it forms very solid communities that can last for a long time. It's really amazing that I still have some good friends who played EVE with me 12 years ago.

We haven't played EVE together since then, but we still keep in touch and occasionally play other games together. So, I think MMOs are a game type that should continue to grow. If it can be made more affordable through full-chain games so that small studios can have a chance to try it, that would be great.

Nejc： Yeah, I think as the whole gaming industry grows, the growth of MMOs is inevitable. I think it's very healthy for the gaming industry.

8. Now is the best time to develop full-chain games

Nejc：Now there are more and more games entering the production stage because many tools have become more accessible. As a new developer, you can refer to some full-chain games to compare and seek advice.

So in the process of developing Influence, what lessons did you hope to avoid? What advice do you have for new developers?

DarkosNightmare：I think one of the suggestions may no longer be of reference value. This suggestion is to try not to start too early. A lot of our struggles were just because we started too early, and like Terrence talked to you about, he identified the need through us when he was developing Dojo.

When we were developing Influence, we first realized that we shouldn't use Solidity, we shouldn't develop on L1. And developing on L2 required learning Cairo. We went through the transition from Cairo 0 to Cairo 1, and we had to develop Cubit because there was no alternative.

There was a lot of effort put into this, some of which has now been recognized and even awarded by the StarkNet Foundation, which is great and I'm very grateful to them, but it's been hard.

I guess the best advice I can give is that now is the time, it's not so early anymore that most of the time is spent developing tools, because a lot of the tools already exist now, which is great.

Of course, you can improve the tools and keep iterating, but now the tools are there. Starknet and other chains have all sorts of programs and initiatives to encourage full-chain gaming. I think now is the time.

Nejc:Yes, now is the time. I think that's a good closing statement for anyone listening to this show.

As a final question that I ask every founder, if you could describe your game in two sentences, how would you describe it to everyone?

DarkosNightmare:I'm not going to look at the two sentences that we wrote earlier. So here's my summary:

Influence is a deep strategic and social space massively multiplayer online game. It's based on real science, set in a constantly moving asteroid belt, and includes real interstellar travel.

I think those are the core elements of the game.

Nejc:Yeah, I think that hits the nail on the head. That's great, man. I'm glad to hear a good two-sentence summary. A lot of game developers have different ways of introducing things, and I think yours is a good one.

DarkosNightmare:Yeah. It's really not easy. Influence is a complex game by design, so there's a lot to talk about. Sometimes I can't help but talk about different aspects, but I think that's a good summary of the core.

Nejc:Okay, I'm going to let you go back to do some final preparations before launch. Any final words?

DarkosNightmare:No thanks. I'll see you on Adalia Prime.

Nejc:Okay, I'll see you in the game.