Trump's latest interview: on tariffs, the Federal Reserve, cryptocurrency, Silicon Valley, and more

Source: Nancy Cook, Joshua Green and Mario Parker, Bloomberg Newsweek; Compiled by: 0xjs@黄金财经

Donald Trump was at Mar-a-Lago in late June planning his next presidency. The club members who adore him may have moved to cooler climates, but Trump is still in a good mood.

Polls show a tight race between him and President Joe Biden, but his fundraising is booming. It's also clear now that his 34 felony convictions haven't upended the race. Two days later, at the first presidential debate, a big shock will come, and Biden will be shocked. And then an even bigger shock will come on July 13, when Trump dodges an assassination bullet.

Bloomberg Businessweek August 2024 cover

In the living room of Mar-a-Lago, there is a towering red balloon tower dotted with huge gold balloons with "47" written on it, the abbreviation of the next president - this was a gift from a local admirer who attached a card praising Trump as "the best commander-in-chief the United States has ever seen." At Trump’s insistence, a staffer pulled out the hot new fashion item he likes to show guests: a red MAGA-style hat emblazoned with the words “Trump is right about everything.”

Beyond Mar-a-Lago, things are less certain elsewhere in the world. People are worried about what a second Trump presidency might portend. As the odds rise that Trump will retake the White House and implement protectionist trade policies, Wall Street firms from Goldman Sachs to Morgan Stanley to Barclays have begun warning clients that inflation will rise. American economic giants like Apple, Nvidia and Qualcomm are grappling with how a further confrontation with China might affect the chips they and everyone else rely on. Democracies in Europe and Asia are concerned about Trump’s isolationist impulses, his shaky commitment to Western alliances and his relationships with China and Russian President Vladimir Putin. While polls generally show that American voters prefer Trump’s management of the economy to Biden’s, many aren’t sure exactly what they’d get if they opted for another round with Trump.

He shrugged off those concerns. He said "Trumpnomics" equates to "low interest rates and low taxes." That's a "huge incentive to get things done and bring businesses back to America." Trump will drill more and regulate less. He will close the southern border. He will squeeze enemies and allies for better trade terms. He will unleash the cryptocurrency industry and rein in reckless Big Tech. In short, he'll make the economy great again.

That's just salesmanship, anyway. The truth is, no one really knows what's going to happen. So Bloomberg Businessweek went to Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida, to press Trump for answers.

In this wide-ranging interview about business and the global economy, he said that if he wins, he'll allow Jerome Powell to finish his term as Fed chairman, which runs until May 2026. Trump wants to cut the corporate tax rate to a low 15%, and he no longer plans to ban TikTok. He would consider Jamie Dimon, chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, for Treasury secretary.

Trump is indifferent to both Taiwan and U.S. efforts to punish Putin for his invasion of Ukraine. “I don’t like sanctions,” he said. He keeps referring to William McKinley, who, he says, raised enough revenue through tariffs during his presidency in the early 20th century to avoid the creation of a federal income tax and never ran the country too much of a deficit.

And Trump (who has a tendency to lie) insists he won’t pardon himself if convicted of federal crimes in the three federal cases against him: “I wouldn’t consider it.” He may not have to — on July 15, a federal judge appointed by Trump dismissed charges that he mishandled classified documents. (The special prosecutor quickly announced that he would appeal the decision.) 'Now I know everybody. Now I'm really seasoned' The broad ideas behind Trumponomics may not be different from those of his first term. The difference is that he intends to implement them more quickly and efficiently. He believes he now has a deeper understanding of the levers of power, including the importance of choosing the right people for the right jobs. 'We had great people, but there were some people I wouldn't choose again,' he said. 'Now, I know everybody. Now, I'm really seasoned.' Trump sees his economic policies as his best way to defeat the Democrats in November, and the Republican Party has made the theme of the opening night of its presidential convention "wealth." He's betting that his unconventional agenda - lower taxes, more oil, less regulation, higher tariffs and fewer foreign financial commitments - will appeal to enough swing-state voters to carry him to victory. It's also a gamble that voters will overlook the negative features of his first term in the White House: the personnel battles, the 180-degree policy shifts, the 6 a.m. social media announcements. And, of course, there was the attempted insurrection on January 6, 2021.

Polls already show that black and Hispanic men are turning to the Republican Party as they tire of record-high food, housing and gas prices. As many as 20% of black men now support Trump, though some experts believe those numbers are exaggerated. Biden is struggling to convince key voters of his economic record, including very low unemployment and rising wages. He also faces fears about his age. Trump could win in November, and many Democratic leaders are increasingly concerned that he will give Republicans control of the House and Senate, as well as the White House.

In that scenario, he would have unprecedented influence to shape the U.S. economy, the global business environment and trade with allies. His first term showed that he prefers to work one-on-one, which will give the CEOs and world leaders with whom he has the best relationships an advantage, while his enemies are at a disadvantage and may even be afraid of what he will do. If there is one thing that stands out about the Businessweek interview with Trump, it is that he is fully aware of that power—and that he is fully willing to use it.

Trump on the U.S. Economy

Trump, dressed in a dark suit and tie, greeted guests in the gold-printed living room of Mar-a-Lago in the cool afternoon light, and he was as keen as ever to play the gracious host. He took the initiative to order a round of Coke and Diet Coke for his visitors, then began to explain how he would govern if re-elected in November.

Business leaders value stability and certainty. They didn't get either during Trump's first presidency. This time around, his campaign was more professional, but he didn't come up with a detailed economic policy agenda to reassure them. The vacuum has puzzled those preparing for Trump's second term.

In late April, several of Trump's informal policy advisers leaked to The Wall Street Journal an explosive draft proposal that would severely limit the independence of the Federal Reserve. It was widely inferred that Trump had supported the idea, which doesn't seem too exaggerated given his previous attacks on Powell. In fact, the Trump campaign insists that he supported neither the proposal nor the leak, and his campaign executives are furious. But the incident is the consequence of Trump's unformed policy, which has left experts at think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation scrambling to fill in the details and compete for influence. Other conservative policy entrepreneurs have been pushing proposals to devalue the dollar or impose a flat tax rate.

At Mar-a-Lago, Trump made it clear that he had had enough of this unauthorized freelance writing. "There's a lot of false information," he complained. He was eager to set the record straight on several issues.

First, Powell. He said in an interview with Fox News in February that he would not reappoint the Fed chairman; now he has made it clear that he will let Powell finish his term, which will last into Trump's second administration.

“I’ll hold him to it,” Trump said, “especially if I think he’s doing the right thing.”

Even so, Trump has ideas about interest rate policy, at least in the short term.

He warned that the Fed should avoid cutting rates before the November election to avoid giving a boost to the economy and Biden.Wall Street fully expects two rate cuts before the end of the year, including one, crucially, before the election.

“We have more liquid gold than anybody else”

Next up for him is inflation. Trump has been critical of Biden’s management of the economy. But he sees anger over high prices and interest rates as an opportunity to appeal to voters who don’t typically support Republicans, such as black and Hispanic men.

Trump says he will lower prices by opening the United States to more oil and gas drilling. “We have more ‘liquid gold’ than anybody,” he says.

Third is immigration. He argues that tough immigration restrictions are key to raising wages and jobs at home. He describes immigration restrictions as “the single most important factor” in determining how he will reshape the economy and particularly benefit the minorities he is eager to win support from. “Black people are going to be hit hard by the millions of immigrants that are pouring into the United States,” he says. “They’re already feeling it. Their wages have dropped dramatically. Their jobs have been taken away by immigrants who have come in illegally.” (Most of the job growth since 2018 has come from naturalized U.S. citizens and legal residents, not immigrants, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.)

Trump’s language has become apocalyptic. “The black population in this country is going to die because of what’s happening, and their jobs, their housing, everything is going to be affected,” he continues. “I want to stop this.”

Apart from oil drilling, Trump has no detailed plan for lowering prices. He is personally convinced that the strong tariffs he is proposing will bring a windfall to the United States. But mainstream economists disagree, warning that it would spur further inflation and amount to higher taxes on American households. A report from the Peterson Institute for International Economics estimated that his tariff regime would cost the average middle-income household $1,700 a year in additional costs. Trump’s policies, including tariffs, immigration restrictions and extended tax cuts, could also push up inflation and slow economic growth, according to estimates from Oxford Economics, a nonpartisan research group. The thread through these policies is “rising inflation expectations,” said Bernard Yaros, chief U.S. economist at Oxford Economics.

Then there’s the budget deficit. Trump’s desire to renew the landmark 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which is expected to cost $4.6 trillion, and further reduce corporate taxes won’t balance the budget no matter how he or his advisers explain it. Combined with economists’ expectations that his protectionist policies will put upward pressure on interest rates, Trump’s plans could add to the nation’s growing debt burden.

But ultimately, Trump’s other positions may be enough to convince business leaders to side with him. "The Biden administration appears to be openly hostile to free markets," Harold Hamm, executive chairman of oil giant Continental Resources Inc., a Trump donor, wrote in an email. "As a result, capital is being set aside. Why? Because of regulatory uncertainty and, in some cases, overt hostility to certain industries." Hamm cited Biden's suspension of liquefied natural gas projects in January as an example. "When Trump is re-elected, that capital that was set aside will be freed up again," he predicted.

Trump on American business leaders

American business is still adjusting to the possibility of Trump's comeback. Privately, many CEOs are not happy. "They can't stand him," said Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, a professor at the Yale School of Management who runs a CEO Leadership Institute and speaks frequently with many executives. Still, they realize that another Trump White House could be around the corner.

On June 13, Trump met privately in Washington with dozens of prominent U.S. CEOs, including JPMorgan Chase’s Dimon, Apple’s Tim Cook and Bank of America’s Brian Moynihan. The “fireside chat” was organized by the nonpartisan lobbying group Business Roundtable. The gathering brought Trump face to face with many of the corporate leaders with whom he has a fraught relationship. Many have been skeptical of him since the beginning of his presidency; some spoke out publicly after Trump’s supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6. Cook, Dimon and Moynihan all condemned the violence, with Cook calling it “a sad and shameful chapter in our nation’s history.” Yet all gathered respectfully to engage with Trump just weeks after a Manhattan jury convicted him of 34 felonies — a clear sign of shifting power dynamics.

Trump is acutely aware of his relationship with America’s corporate giants, seeking both their approval and their bending to his will. At Mar-a-Lago, when he was presented with LVMH CEO Bernard Arnault, who was featured on the cover of Businessweek’s July issue, he called Arnault, one of the world’s wealthiest men, “a terrific guy and, I guess, a friend,” but asked if they had talked about the relationship. (They hadn’t.)

When it was pointed out to Trump that no Fortune 100 CEO had publicly donated to his campaign, Trump flew into a rage. (Elon Musk has since pledged financial support.) He remains smarting from CNBC’s coverage of the Business Roundtable, which quoted an anonymous CEO who slammed Trump as “very aimless” and “off the mark.”

Instead, Trump insisted that the encounter was “a love fest.” “I’ll tell you when I’m not loved, because I feel it more than anybody,” he said. “CNBC called and apologized because they found our meeting to be a great experience.” (A CNBC spokesperson wrote: “We did not apologize. We spoke with the former president about keeping the lines of communication open.”)

Trump said he reminded the executives in the room that in 2017 he had cut the corporate tax rate “from 39 percent to 21 percent” (it was actually from 35 percent to 21 percent) and vowed to reduce it further, to 20 percent. “They loved it, they were happy about it,” he recalled. He added that he wanted to cut the rate even lower: “I’d like to get to 15 percent.”

But Trump also knew that whatever “love” the CEOs expressed was ultimately self-interested: They could read the election polls just like anyone else. “Whoever’s ahead gets all the support they want,” he said. “Even if I had a shrimp personality, everyone would support me.”

That wasn’t always the case. As Trump, disgraced after his attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, appeared to have reached a political dead end, the Republican business community joined a coalition eager to elect a new standard-bearer for the party. It began pouring money and attention into a new generation of business-friendly politicians, including Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and Virginia Gov. Glenn Younkin, who also serves as co-CEO of the investment firm Carlyle Group. But in 2024, DeSantis’ presidential campaign fizzled, Haley’s faded and Younkin’s never took place. Trump easily won the nomination, leaving business leaders stunned and dismayed.

“Everybody misunderstood this,” said Liam Donovan, a Republican business lobbyist. “The core assumption is that Trump is done. But DeSantis was never going to be that guy, and neither was Haley. People saw an opportunity to turn over a new leaf and tried to make it happen, but it didn’t work. The base wanted Trump.”

Trump is known to hold grudges: At a conservative political conference last year, he promised “revenge.” But asked at Mar-a-Lago if he would hold CEOs he disliked accountable, he declined. “I have no plans to retaliate against anybody,” he said.

He did reignite long-running feuds with Meta Platforms Inc. Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg and Amazon.com Inc. founder and Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos. Bezos’s paper’s chronicling of Trump’s false claims during his presidency (a staggering 30,573) was particularly infuriating. Trump said Bezos had “done a lot of damage to himself” and had “made a lot of enemies” by owning the Post.

For all the criticism and opposition Trump has faced in the corporate world, he has no shortage of support in boardrooms and on Wall Street. "The economy was great under Trump," said Scott Bessent, chief executive of Key Square Capital Management LLC and a major Trump donor. "It was great for people at the top and at the bottom. The market was great. Real wages went up. It was a very good period."

Other prominent CEOs who disagree with Trump's supporters have also praised his presidency. "To be honest," Dimon said in January at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. "He was kind of right about NATO, he was kind of right about immigration. He got the economy growing pretty well. Tax reform worked. He was kind of right about China. ... He wasn't wrong about some of these key issues, and that's why they voted for him."

Trump was amused by the praise. He reversed his view of Dimon, whom he attacked on Truth Social last year, calling "overrated globalist Jamie Dimon," and now says he can envision Dimon as his Treasury secretary, and Dimon is said to be considering a career in politics. “He’s someone I would consider,” Trump said. (A spokesman for Dimon declined to comment.)

While Trump has occasionally raged against business leaders, he seems eager to have them in his second administration. Doug Burgum, the North Dakota governor and former tech CEO, was once on Trump’s list of vice presidential candidates and a possible entry into his cabinet. Bessant is also a candidate for Treasury secretary. Trump has even begun embracing CEOs who not long ago were considered potential challengers. “Glenn Youngkin is a prime-time favorite,” he said after the interview. “I would love to have him in my administration.” And Trump’s eventual running mate, JD Vance, has been a venture capitalist for years.

Still, many CEOs remain uneasy about Trump’s resurgence. Ken Chenault, former chairman and CEO of American Express, said Trump’s threats have had a chilling effect on business leaders. “People are sitting on the sidelines,” he said, “because they’re so worried about retaliation.” Chenault cited another example from Trump’s presidency: his opposition to the $85 billion AT&T-Time Warner merger and his concern that Trump would try to force the sale of CNN because people were unhappy with its coverage of his administration.

Chenault said current CEOs worry they could end up in Trump’s crosshairs: “That fear is real.”

Trump on foreign policy

As president, Trump has broken with long-standing Republican orthodoxy in favor of free trade. He said he would go even further if re-elected. At Mar-a-Lago, he delivered an impassioned defense of U.S. tariffs — he’s been studying McKinley, calling him the “tariff king” — to make clear that he intends to raise tariffs not only on China but also on the European Union.

“McKinley made this country rich,” Trump said. “He’s the most underrated president.”In Trump’s reading of history, McKinley’s successors squandered his legacy on expensive government programs like the New Deal (“the whole parks and dams program”), unfairly poisoning a vital tool of economic statecraft.“I can’t believe how many people are against tariffs, and they’re smart,” Trump said. “It’s good for negotiations, man. I’ve had countries that might be very hostile to me come to me and say, ‘Sir, stop the tariffs.’ ”

“I can’t believe how many people are against tariffs, and they’re smart. My God, isn’t it good for negotiations?”

To the shock of many business and consumer groups, Biden has maintained Trump’s tariffs on China and even raised them on steel, aluminum, semiconductors, electric vehicles, batteries and other goods. “It’s going to drive up price inflation across the board, all in the name of ‘tough guy’ election-year politics,” Yaël Ossowski, deputy director of the Center for Consumer Choice, a nonpartisan advocacy group, said in May.

In Trump’s world, however, Biden’s actions are seen as proof that Trump is right and his Democratic critics are wrong about China’s threat to the U.S. economy and security. Trump is eager to prescribe more of the same, including to European allies. In addition to new tariffs of 60% to 100% on China, he said he would impose across-the-board tariffs of 10% on imports from other countries, citing complaints that foreign countries are not buying enough American goods.

“‘European Union’ sounds cute,” Trump said. "We like Scotland and Germany. We like all these places. But once you cross that line, they treat us badly." He cited Europe's reluctance to import American cars and agricultural products as the main reason for a trade deficit of more than $200 billion, a figure he sees as a key measure of economic fairness.

As with so many other things, Trump takes a personal view of trade. He talks about trade as if it were a private negotiation between him and recalcitrant foreign leaders who understand full well that they are ripping off the United States and must be curbed. He became emotional as he recalled a conversation with then-Chancellor Angela Merkel. "Angela, how many Fords or Chevrolets are there in the center of Munich right now?" he remembers asking.

He responded, imitating Merkel’s German accent: “Oh, I don’t believe a lot.”

He retorted: “Almost nothing.”

Having made his point clear, Trump turned to the Businessweek reporter and said: “They treat us badly,” he said, “but I’m changing all that and the culture.” He suggested that if Trump returned to the White House, he could get the job done.

Trump’s transactional view of foreign policy and his desire to “win” every deal could have global ramifications and even damage America’s alliances. Asked if the United States was committed to protecting Taiwan, Trump made it clear that his attitude was lukewarm at best, despite recent bipartisan support for the island. His skepticism stems in part from economic grievances. “Taiwan took our chip business,” he said. “I mean, how stupid are we? They took all our chip business. They’re very rich.”He wants Taiwan to pay the United States for its protection. "I think we're no different than an insurance policy. Why? Why would we do that?" he asked.

Another factor that makes him skeptical is what he sees as the practical difficulties of defending a tiny island on the other side of the globe. "Taiwan is 9,500 miles from us," he said. "It's 68 miles from China." Abandoning the commitment to Taiwan would represent a major shift in U.S. foreign policy — as significant as ending support for Ukraine. But Trump sounds ready to fundamentally change the terms of those relationships.

In contrast, his view of Saudi Arabia was friendlier. He said he had spoken with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud over the past six months, but he declined to elaborate on the nature or frequency of their conversations. Asked if he was concerned that increasing U.S. oil and gas production would anger the Saudis, who want to maintain energy dominance, Trump replied that he didn't think so, again pointing to the personal relationship. "He likes me and I like him," he said of the crown prince. "They always need protection ... they don't protect themselves." He added: "I will always protect them."

Trump accused Biden and former President Barack Obama of damaging the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia, saying they pushed Saudi Arabia into a key adversary. "They're not with us anymore," he said. "They're with China. But they don't want to be with China. They want to be with us."

There are many reasons for Trump to support closer ties with Saudi Arabia beyond U.S. foreign policy. He faces hundreds of millions of dollars in interest. On July 1, the Trump Organization and DAR Global announced plans to build a Trump Tower and luxury hotel in Jeddah. The investment fund founded by his son-in-law Jared Kushner also received a $2 billion investment from the Saudi government's wealth fund.

Western allies, now familiar with Trump's personal style and erratic foreign policy, are taking a raft of steps to prepare for his return to the White House. These include increasing defense spending, transferring control of military aid to Ukraine to NATO, competing to improve relations with Trump advisers and affiliated think tanks, and reaching out to Republican governors and thought leaders to understand Trump's intentions. At a NATO summit in Washington, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged allies to act quickly to help Ukraine repel a Russian invasion, rather than wait until the results of the November election to decide what to do.

Dan Caldwell, a policy adviser at the right-wing think tank Defense First, said that "Europe's interest is really to make their defense 'independent of the United States' and start assuming that the United States has other more pressing national security priorities as well as domestic affairs."

Trump on Silicon Valley

Trump has frequently targeted the U.S. tech industry during and after his presidency. For much of that time, before Musk took office, Twitter (now Twitter X) was his go-to platform for venting his frustrations with companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter. In 2020, he signed an executive order that reduced legal protections for social media platforms under Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act. His administration has launched antitrust investigations into Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google — actions that have continued and expanded under the Biden administration.

Trump’s attacks on Big Tech were never, exactly, ironclad statements of policy or principle. Similar to his tariff proposals, they at least served as leverage — he signaled negotiating positions to which companies and CEOs had to respond. His and Republicans’ main complaint in the past was that tech companies were biased against conservatives — implicitly banning them, deplatforming them, and (allegedly) suppressing right-leaning sources in search results. Today, Trump is focusing on a charge with broader appeal: that out-of-control tech companies are harming children — and even contributing to a wave of suicides across the country. “They’ve gotten too big and too powerful,” he said. “They’ve had a huge, negative impact on young people.”

The stance may stem from Trump’s understanding of how TV dramas can influence public opinion. In February, at a Senate hearing for tech executives, Zuckerberg was forced to apologize to parents in the audience who said social media abuse had led their children to commit suicide. It was a stunning moment, and Trump used the allegation to fuel his campaign. “I don’t want them to destroy our young people,” he said of social media companies. "Look at what they're doing - even killing themselves."

"If there's no TikTok, all you have is Facebook and Instagram - they belong to Zuckerberg."

Moments later, however, he defended the platforms as an important bulwark against China's technological hegemony. Trump wants to dominate American companies himself, but he doesn't want foreign competitors to replace them. "I have great respect for them," he insisted of the companies he had just slammed. "If you go after them really hard, you can destroy them. I don't want to destroy them."

At Mar-a-Lago, Trump claimed that he didn't want to hurt American technology companies and advocated for the superiority of domestic companies over foreign ones, but TikTok was an exception. Speaking about his recent embrace of the Chinese social media platform, where he has become popular, Trump mentioned that banning TikTok in the United States would benefit a company and a CEO, and he didn't want to reward them. "Now that I think about it, I support TikTok because you need competition," he said. "If there's no TikTok, all you have is Facebook and Instagram - you know, they belong to Zuckerberg." He wouldn't tolerate such an outcome. He is still stung by Facebook’s decision to indefinitely ban him from TikTok after the Jan. 6 attack. “All of a sudden,” Trump complained, “I went from being the boss to nobody.”

His shift in attitude toward cryptocurrencies reflects a similar dynamic. Not long ago, he criticized Bitcoin as a “scam” and a “disaster waiting to happen.” Now, he says, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies should be “made in America.” He frames the shift in attitude as a practical necessity. “If we don’t, China will find a way, and China will own it — or somebody else,” he said.

Not coincidentally, the cryptocurrency industry — spurned by Democrats, flush with cash and eager to make friends in Washington — has now found Trump’s back. "The Biden administration, largely due to the SEC's actions, has stumbled into being anti-crypto," said Justin Slaughter, policy director at Paradigm, an investment firm focused on cryptocurrencies. "With polls showing that about 20% of Democrats own crypto, and that owners are predominantly young and non-white, that's not politically wise." Trump moved to fill the void, announcing in a May speech that he would "stop Joe Biden's crypto chokehold." The following month, he cashed in, raising money from bitcoin miners at a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago. Trump's campaign then announced it would "build a crypto army," which now accepts cryptocurrency donations.

Some in Silicon Valley have learned that the best way to get Trump to change his tune is to appeal directly to him. That's what Tim Cook did. In 2019, as Trump announced a 25% import tariff, it looked like Apple would become a casualty of Trump's trade war with China, with billions of dollars at risk. He then publicly rejected Apple’s request for an exemption. “Apple will not receive an exemption or reduction for Tariffs on Mac Pro parts made in China,” he wrote on Twitter. “Made in the USA, no Tariffs!”

At Mar-a-Lago, Trump lavished praise on Cook and revealed how the Apple CEO had convinced him to back down. He recalled Cook reaching out to him privately and asking, “Can I come in and see you?” Trump appreciated the respect shown by the CEO of what was then the most valuable company in the world. “It was very impressive,” Trump said. “I said, ‘Well, come in.’” Trump remembered Cook being forthright. “He said to me, ‘I need help with the 25% and 50% tariffs you’re putting on Apple products coming from China,’ ” he recalled. “He said, ‘It’s really going to hurt our business. It could kill our business.’ ” (An Apple spokesperson declined to comment.)

That wasn’t what Trump was trying to do — he was primarily trying to prove that he could bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States, as he had promised. Trump convinced Cook to expand domestic production during the interview. “I said, ‘I’ll do something for you,’ ” Trump recalled. “‘But you have to make it in America.’ ” Four months later, Apple announced it would begin construction on the campus in Austin. “Making the most powerful device Apple has ever made, the Mac Pro, in Austin is a point of pride and a testament to the enduring power of American ingenuity,” Cook was quoted in a press release as saying. Cook then gifted Trump a $5,999 Mac Pro, one of the first to be produced at the Texas factory.

Did Trump force Cook’s hand? It’s doubtful. Apple had originally announced a $1 billion investment in a new campus in Austin a year earlier, and Mac Pros had been assembled at existing factories in Texas since the Obama era. Still, the event was a boon for Trump and established Cook as opposite ends of the personal CEO continuum from Zuckerberg. It also laid out a potential roadmap for how tech CEOs might navigate a second Trump term.

“I’ve found him to be a very good businessman,” he said of Cook.

On an uncertain future

Trump’s views on corporate America and the people who run them suddenly matter more than ever. So do his views on the Federal Reserve, the economy and all the world’s important issues.

Biden’s shockingly poor debate performance on June 27 heightened doubts about the president’s cognitive health and plunged the Democratic Party into an existential crisis. It also gave Trump a sizable lead in many polls — and, combined with narrowly escaping assassination, may have further bolstered his already formidable sense of political inviolability.

“The debate did have a big impact,” he said in a follow-up call on July 9, four days before the shooting. “A lot of states are just now starting to come in, and it shows a big shift.” Asked if Biden should drop out of the race, he said: “That’s a decision he has to make. But I do think our country is in great danger whether he stays or he drops out.” Of Vice President Kamala Harris, who is considered the most likely alternative to the Democratic nominee, Trump said: “I don’t think it’s going to make a lot of difference. I define her very much the same way I define him.” With months to go until Election Day, there’s plenty of time for the dynamics of the campaign to shift.

But even at Mar-a-Lago, days before Biden’s debate loss, Trump seemed to be feeling the intense good fortune. When the resort’s longtime managing director dropped by during the conversation, Trump proudly noted that the club would raise its initiation fee from $700,000 to $1 million in October and open four new spots — presumably a sign of a dwindling proximity to the potential next president.

By the end of our interview, Trump was boasting, trying to give Businessweek a send-off by donning that new MAGA hat (“Trump is right about everything”). We politely declined. Ultimately it is for the voters to decide.